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The elusiveness of trust on the ethnic frontier
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Interview with Jose & Marizete Lara: Laboratory for mission
Anna Rankin

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Derek Keefe

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Laboratory for mission

Jose Carlos Lara, a Baptist Pastor from São Paulo in Brazil, his wife Marizete and their three daughters came to live and work in Northern Ireland in February 2004. The whole family is engaged in mission work among the Portuguese-speaking community in the Dungannon area where many businesses rely on the labour of migrant workers. Having first met them in July 2004 I went back in January 2005 to catch up with them.

WHEN I FIRST MET Jose Carlos and Marizete in July 2004 they were getting to grips with the situation in Dungannon. Jose Carlos was working in Dungannon Meats, Marizete in Menary’s department store, the two eldest girls in McDonalds with the youngest a pupil at Dungannon Royal School. I wrote an article in lion&lamb about the rising number of migrant workers in the area and the emerging challenges an opportunities in this, their mission field.

The model of mission which they have developed differs from more traditional approaches. This, in part, is due to the fact that they have to be financially self-supporting. Since a big devaluation in the Brazilian currency, the Real, six or seven years ago, their sending church in Brazil can no longer financially support missionaries coming to the UK.

Their daily work brings them into contact with people. They are conscious of trying to follow the model of Jesus. ‘He didn’t just send a message – he lived, worked, ate the same food, lived a normal life alongside people,’ Jose Carlos says. ‘It is not the picture of the traditional pastor I want to show – wearing a nice suit and carrying a Bible and teaching. It is the model of one who is part of the community and does a job like anybody else.’

Clearly they had already made many friends in the community, both among ‘locals’ and the Portuguese-speaking community. As we chatted people greeted them as they came by our table in the busy café.

They set up a Bible-study group in their home. In the first two weeks five people came to faith, which they saw as an encouragement from God as they embarked on their work, rather than a precedent that they would have to live up to. They soon relocated to the Youth For Christ Drop-In Centre where people can play snooker, table tennis or Playstation, attend English classes and Bible studies. At the time of our first meeting around 20 people came regularly on a Saturday.

For many migrants, they were already the first point of call, rather than the Portuguese Centre or other public information services. As Marizete pointed out, ‘The Portuguese Centre here is doing a great job but, for example, they have to charge for translation services, we do it for free. Plus people are coming to us with very personal issues; they are confidential problems. They think if they tell others, everyone will know their business. We are their friends – they come first to us.’

Initially, they found church life in Northern Ireland very different. ‘That was a real shock to us. Everything was strange, the buildings, the hymns – you look at the date and see how old some of them are – and there is a very formal order of service. People here say the young people aren’t interested in church – it’s not just the young people – and I can see why. If we were in Brazil we would say ok, so let’s change it.’

In Brazil relations between the Protestants and Catholics are much easier than they found them to be here. They were shocked by the sectarianism they encountered. ‘I need to take time to reflect and to think about Northern Ireland. In the whole planet Christians are supposed to love and forgive and live in unity – I’m not talking about ecumenism – but why is there conflict? Both Catholics and Protestants serve the same Master and we are called to love our enemy. But then I think back to Brazil. We have our own conflicts there too with the street children, the drug addicts and gangs,’ Jose Carlos reflected at the time.

‘Half of my family is Catholic. The first thing we have to be before God is ourselves – there is no other option. I don’t understand why people want to hate Catholics – that doesn’t make you a good Christian – it might make you a ‘good protestant’ but it doesn’t make you a good Christian. There are plenty of things we should be against – be against sin, against the powers of the world, there is so much happening in this world we should be against – but we are called to love one another and to follow the Prince of Peace.’

So far our first conversation. How would things seem a further six months down the line?

What brought you to Northern Ireland?
JC: We had a clear sense of call. We felt that there was a specific task for us here that God was calling us to. In the past few years God has been showing us something about a wise way of doing mission.

We saw that many people come to Europe or the United States or other countries for a job, medical treatment, school or for other reasons. If the church is able to communicate the gospel in a relevant and meaningful way in this context and these people become Christians and grow in maturity, if they decide to go back to their country they would be much more effective missionaries than me and you, or anyone else. They already know the language and culture, they don’t have to adapt to the food or the weather and they know when they can speak in a safe way and who they can trust – many of the things that, as foreigners, we don’t know even after many years of missionary training.

We prayed about finding somewhere in Europe. I met the director of Latin Link in Birmingham two years ago and she told me there was a town in Northern Ireland with lots of foreigners – most of them Portuguese speakers. For me it was an answer from God. We discussed it as a family and prayed about it together and here we are.

How has your concept of mission developed?
JC: I think we have come a long way from the 18th and 19th century model of mission when missionaries built a village and stayed away from the people. It was thought, in an arrogant way, that the missionary brings God to people. God was already there!

When I was studying at the Centro Evangelico de Missoes (CEM) a Brazilian evangelical school of mission, about 14 years ago, I began to build this concept of working with foreigners. Every day it got stronger and stronger in my mind. Now I am absolutely sure that this is a fantastic strategy for the 21st century.

We were influenced by literature and teachers who were much more concerned about social issues than people usually were. Contextualisation is a key word in that school. Rene Padilla, a theologian from South America, said something like, ‘God did not shout his message from heaven – he became a man and lived among men and he became flesh in the context of a Jew of the first century.’ That is what I am trying to do here in Dungannon. To be among the Portuguese, work among the Portuguese and share the same things, the joy and everything. I believe we have to try to live like the incarnation, that is what we are supposed to do as Christians.

Foreigners are much more sensitive because the links with family, culture and the home country are broken. I met an Irish missionary who had lived in Portugal for more than 10 years. He told me that in two months here in Portadown he saw more people accepting Christ than in 10 years in Portugal. In their own country they are self-confident and they have relationships to families and friends and the wider society. Here they are alone and they suffer a lot. Their life is changing all the time. The only thing they know is go to work, go to the pub and come back home and sleep – that’s their life.

In the beginning, I used to work in a meat factory as well. The work was very physical – I had never worked on a factory production line before. I have worked since I was 14, but always in offices or schools, using my brain rather than my muscles. Carrying boxes containing 20 or 25 kilos of meat, was tough work. It was good because in the six months I worked there I made friends. Some of them came to the church or to the Bible study. I made really good connections and I think the ministry was only recognised because I was among them. If I came only with a religious label I wouldn’t have been accepted, but now I am one of them. That sowed the seeds of acceptance. I had to be there to see, to feel in the flesh how hard the work is, feel their pain.

M: He had to give up because he developed serious health problems. He was going to the factory then in the afternoon coming back to the house really tired and people would be there waiting to talk to him about serious problems, or some needed lifts. It was too much. So he gave up the factory work and left the rest in God’s hands.

JC: Now I am a full-time Pastor and am studying for a Masters Degree at the Irish Baptist College.

You found church life in Northern Ireland quite different at first, how does it compare with Brazil?
JC: People here tend to like tradition more and Brazilians like more informality. ‘Be yourself’ is a key sentence in Brazilian churches.

M: We are free to worship God in the way we like.

JC: I don’t want to judge the way church is in Northern Ireland, but sometimes it seems to me that people are more concerned with what other people will think of them rather than what God is thinking about them.

Most of the churches growing up in Brazil have 70–80% young people in the church. Here you see children and teenagers and then old people, in between there is a gap. You don’t find young people here, young couples from 18 to 35 or 40 years old – where are these people? They are supposed to be the strength of the church, they bring joy and are the lifeblood of the church. I can’t find a good explanation for that. This is something different for us. I am not saying that Brazilian churches are better than Irish churches; we have had lots of problems too.

In terms of theology you are much better than us. Without a strong biblical knowledge base you are much more open to weird things or extreme positions which could be avoided.

M: In Brazil in some churches you can be a pastor without any kind of study. It is easy – just rent a room, open a church and in two weeks the church is huge. People go to these churches because they are seeking something: to be healed, they need a miracle or want blessings from God. They want, want, want – but there is no biblical or thological way of doing things.

JC: My former pastor used to say, ‘We have lots of churches full of people, but full of empty people.’ Also you can see a lot of division in the church, so you have problems here, there, everywhere.

Many of our churches and buildings have been around for a long time. What difference do you think that makes?
JC: In Brazil we have the idea that the Catholic Church represents the old, dark old buildings with candles. A typical evangelical church will be a new building, modern, colourful, and light, clear in every sense.

Most of us come from a Catholic background originally and when you become a Christian, you break with everything that reminds you of the old. The churches preach much more about new life in Christ. Becoming a Christian means the past is gone, and with new life goes new buildings, new songs and new worship styles, new everything.

It is impossible to be totally without tradition, because we build our own tradition. But tradition cannot be more important than meaning. We need to think about the meaning of the things we do. The question I bring to my mind and I share with the people of my church all the time is, ‘Why are we doing this?’ Is it because it always was that way or because it means something? If it means something and we keep the meaning in our mind then let’s keep doing it.

What about the Portuguese-speaking congregation?
JC: There are 30–35 in the group meeting in the Baptist church in Dungannon on Sundays at 5.00pm. How many turn up depends on the weather because they don’t have cars and they all have to walk. Sometimes we can give lifts, but not to all of them.

On Saturdays we are based in the Youth for Christ Drop-In Centre in Dungannon and we also started a new Bible study group in Molesworth Presbyterian Church, Cookstown on Fridays. We have English classes followed by Bible study and we offer Portuguese classes as well. They don’t have to pay for their lessons and I told them that they don’t have to stay for the Bible study just to please me, just come and learn – it’s for free. Amazingly all of them wanted to stay – some of them didn’t even come for the classes they just came for the Bible study, which was really nice.

We have started this Bible study and we intend to take them with the Dungannon group to our Sunday service in the Baptist church but we will need a bus. Transport is a big problem on a Sunday evening, there is no public transport. We are counsellors, social workers, and taxi drivers. Life is quite busy sometimes but it is worth it.

Do the foreigners integrate with the locals or do they remain separate? Are there any points of conflict?
JC: A few Portuguese will get married to Irish people or they will bring their families to live with them and they are here to stay. But most, 80–85% of them, are here for just a short time. They work as hard as they can to get money and go back to their home or go to another country. So they don’t mix and there is no integration at all.

M: In Dungannon we have two Portuguese shops where they can get the food they have at home.

JC: We try to encourage them to mix. Once a month, instead of having our own service in Portuguese, we have a joint service with the Baptists. We have translation and we sing in Portuguese and in English. It is good for everybody, the church and for our community, to mix. Some of them have no problem mixing but some are scared and don’t want to and you have to respect that. But day-by-day we can make it easier for them.

M: The ladies here wear hats and really nice clothes to church. At first the Portuguese and Brazilian ladies didn’t want to go to a mixed service because they didn’t have a nice dress to wear. I said, ‘Oh that’s not a problem, don’t worry about how you look.’ They said ‘Oh no, they are very well dressed, we are not.’ It seems a small thing but it is really important for them. It is hard to convince someone that they can go to the church and the way they are dressed is not important. That’s the kind of thing that we are dealing with and we try to support them. At the second joint service there were no hats! We hadn’t said anything, but someone must have realised it was a problem. You have to talk about these things, I think both sides have things to learn.

What other practical things are important?
JC: You have to have a balance always. If we sing three songs in English we have to sing three in Portuguese. If you don’t translate everything they will get angry. The Irish are much more patient. If they come to our service, and very often they do, we don’t have to translate everything for them they are more flexible. But the Portuguese are not. They speak up when something is wrong and don’t just keep it to themselves the way the Irish might do. That is one of the differences between the two cultures. People here are quiet. It is hard for them to express themselves but for Latin people they come and tell you straight out.

Is worship different here?
M: Definitely, it is very different. Brazilians are the noisiest people in the world, we sing more. Churches here tend to be much more silent.

JC: We would normally clap and feel relaxed but when they are together with the Irish they cross their arms and behave like Irish people. Together they are different. They know that people are watching them and it intimidates them sometimes. We have to break down the barriers day by day. It is a slow process.

Unity of the church is something worth striving for. Though it is going to take a long time to break down the prejudice on both sides, integration is going to happen naturally I hope.

Have you as a couple become integrated into the local community?
JC: We have many friends here and the Baptist and Presbyterian churches here in Dungannon have been very supportive – we have a very good relationship. We don’t think of citizenship in terms of being Brazilian or Irish or Portuguese but much more in terms of we are citizens of heaven, so we don’t care about these barriers. The prejudice, the things that separate us must be broken down. We have to try to build a really integrated community.

In the wider society it is more complex because they [the migrant workers] have no social life at all, they have no contact. I know lots of people who don’t speak English, who don’t want to learn English. They don’t have to because in the factory they can use Portuguese. They can learn just a few basic words or phrases to order a taxi or to ask for simple things and that’s it. So there is no contact.

Language is a big problem. Just a couple of hours ago I had to take a Portuguese man to the post office because he didn’t know how to send a letter, basic things. Translation is a major thing.

M: We are mother and father sometimes. The links in a church of foreigners are much stronger because we are the only people they know here. Christmas time is terrible for foreigners because they are sad and homesick for their families. We try to support them as a sort of stepfamily and to offer love. We understand because we are feeling the same.

You now have a team working with you. Who are they and what are they doing?
JC: We have a team of seven volunteers from our home church: four boys and two girls aged between 19 and 26. They have each come for a one-year period but we would keep them longer if they could get visas. It is something we have to pray about. They all work full-time in factories and are very integrated in the community.

All of them are involved with drama, three are musicians and two play soccer. That is a valuable skill from an evangelistic point of view because they use football as a way of building bridges. Three or four boys who accepted Christ as their Saviour over the last few months came through football.

At Christmas we put on a play – not an old-fashioned nativity play, we had rock music and dance. It was a public event – 70 people came. We invited mainly the Portuguese-speakers because the play was in Portuguese and then some Irish friends wanted to come too so we translated the play on PowerPoint. It was the first time I have seen a play with subtitles! And it worked. It was fantastic!

The play was set in a meat factory and told the story of two migrant workers who came from Brazil to work here. After many deceptions and difficulties and problems with drugs and drink the guy eventually accepts Christ. The good thing is that many of the guys we invited recognised themselves in the story. Even the owner of the meat factory was in the audience! And he enjoyed it too.

M: I was operating the PowerPoint and I could hear the audience in the middle of the play saying, ‘That’s me – that’s what it was like for me when I got here’. I thought that was wonderful. That is our goal – to identify with their experience’.

Is racism still a problem in Dungannon?
JC: Racism is still a problem in Dungannon. The local newspaper reported that there were 50 racist attacks in Dungannon in 2004 – four times as many as in 2003. That’s a high number in a small town like this. It is something that we still have to deal with. Last month we heard for the first time of a racist attack by a Portuguese man who attacked an Irish couple. They used to be the victims but now they are starting to attack back. And that is very dangerous.

M: We tell them not to go out late in the evening, stay at home, or avoid particular streets. After 10.00 or 11.00 at night the town centre is really, really dangerous so if you don’t have to be there, don’t go. It’s just awareness. And we tell them not to fight back.

One evening two of our boys left the Drop-In Centre at about 11.00 or 11.30 – sometimes people are enjoying themselves and get talking and they forget the time: the problem is getting home – they hadn’t got far when they were attacked by a couple, right in the town centre. The woman hit one of them in the face with her handbag, injuring him. There was no provocation. They had been phoning Brazil on their mobiles, talking in Portuguese and one of them was black. It was very frightening for them. They won’t walk any more so they call a taxi or we give them lifts.

JC: If people are drunk they will do this. That is what happens here. So, to be fair, not all of these are ‘racist’ attacks. Some people just go to the pub, get drunk and get into fights – they are just looking for trouble. In a sense these are ‘normal’ fights, normal incidents. The only difference is that the victims are foreigners.

There are now over 30 different nationalities in this small town. That is quite a challenge. Sometimes groups of people trying to defend their own interests can get very angry or even violent. They can react in ways we don’t expect. If some of them have to fight for something, they will – for us this is kind of new.

M: Communication is difficult. We try to give them the message of the Bible, we say that the Bible says to offer the other cheek, but they fight back. So we have to start again. It is hard. We heard there were problems but we didn’t have any idea how serious the problems were between the different ethnic groups.

JC: There are many Portuguese who do not like Africans there are many Africans who don’t like Timorese and they all don’t like Eastern Europeans.

I remember some months ago I was evangelising an African who was black and he was very angry. I was talking about the Bible, about Jesus and the gospel, and about forgiveness and he just said, ‘You know man, I got to tell you something: I hate white people.’

Do you often find yourselves working as peacemakers?
JC: Some of these people come from a violent background – especially those coming from Timor and some African countries that have gone through civil war. Here they have a chance of starting a new life and that means forgiveness – leaving the past in the hands of God and making sure that it doesn’t hurt any more [people]. You cannot erase the past from your memory, it’s part of your history and nothing can change it. But we can change the future and do something different from now on. People who come to this country as migrant workers come with this in mind, ‘This is my chance of starting a new life’. This is what they could contribute to this country. Somehow I think people in Northern Ireland have to learn to start a new life too. All of us have to learn it. I think the only way of overcoming the conflict here is forgiveness.

Love, compassion, forgiveness – they are concepts that are easy to preach about, but on Monday morning when they go to the factory it is hard to live them.

What are the other challenges for mission here?
JC: Dungannon is a kind of laboratory for mission. I call it the missiological lab, because you have people from every continent, literally. We have some illegal immigrants here as well, so there are lots of issues in this town.

Most of the immigrants do not speak English. Language is a huge problem. There are over 1,000 Portuguese-speakers in the Dungannon area and now Eastern Europeans outnumber them. Some of them come to the English classes but, as they don’t speak Portuguese, they can’t take part in the Bible study.

We are looking for someone who has a heart for evangelism and speaks Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian or Russian to join our team here in Dungannon. That is our prayer. I wrote to Bible colleges, mission organisations and churches and they could not find anyone. There are people who speak those languages but they are not willing to come because the project is selfsupported. We are tentmakers, that means that they would have to work in the factories and live among them and many people are not interested in this.*

People know that your door is always open. Are you still the first port of call when people have problems?
M: We know some people come to our house because they need help and we help them. They may never go to the Bible study or the Sunday service, but we don’t judge them. We help without asking for anything in return.

JC: We are here not only to preach but also to live with love. It is hard sometimes, we know some people use us, but you just pray for them. We cannot interpret mission as a trade: I did something for you and now you have to give me something back.

M: The beautiful thing is seeing how people’s lives are changing. The work is God’s, not ours, it is amazing. It is one thing in theory, but we are seeing in practice that it works… I am very, very happy being here.

JOSE CARLOS & MARIZETE LARA were interviewed by Anna Rankin in January 2005.

* Since this interview took place contact has been established with a Lithuanian, who also speaks English and Russian and has a degree in theology, who wants to come and work with the team in Dungannon. He currently lacks the financial support necessary to move from Lithuania with his family to Northern Ireland. They are praying that the means will soon become available.

Howard House, 1 Brunswick Street, Belfast, BT2 7GE

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