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LION&LAMB INTERVIEW
Multi-cultural Church Life – Rev Noel Fallows

Noel Fallows is a Methodist minister in the Portlaoise circuit. He moved to the midlands six months ago following eight years as minister in Clontarf, Sutton and Skerries. A former teacher at Limavady High School, he gave up teaching in 1989, having taught French for 23 years. In February 1997 two African asylum seekers came to the Sunday service in Clontarf, beginning an ongoing work with asylum seekers and refugees in Clontarf and now Portlaoise, two of an increasing number of multicultural congregations in the Republic of Ireland. He is married and has two children aged 15 and 9.

How did you first become involved with asylum seekers and refugees?
I had come to Dublin from Adare, Co Limerick. As a Methodist minister the maximum time you can stay in one place is eight years. We found it difficult to understand why we were moved from a small rural village like Adare to Dublin at that stage because we are not city people. The first Africans came on the first Sunday in February 1997 and we had really just got settled in.

Having made the career change from teaching to ministry, I didn't expect to use French again, except on holidays. It was quite a surprise to meet these people whose only means of communication was French. But it was exciting as well. One of the two who came initially was from the Democratic Republic of Congo, formerly Zaire. My father had been a missionary there. I had had contact with the Congo since childhood, was still in contact with other missionaries who had been there and had kept up to date with what was going on. So there was a personal interest. But there was also the thought that if someone arrives on your doorstep – a foreigner, a stranger – and they have a problem, you have a choice to make: do you get involved with them or do you push them away? From a Christian point of view I think you have got to welcome them and do what you can for them.

As far as the congregation was concerned, they didn't know how to respond apart from just providing food or welcoming them as well as they could – smiling at them – just kindness, basic human kindness. In the case of the two who came first, not knowing English, never mind the culture, it was early February and they quickly began suffering from the flu. My people welcomed them and identified with their plight. Perhaps if it had been a bigger group coming in the beginning it might have been different. But they got to know them and got to hear their story and just out of sheer pity and sympathy for them, did all they could to make them feel welcome.

A large number of immigrants have formed their own ethnic churches all over Ireland. These congregations, sometimes using church premises or other public halls for their services, want very much to keep their own identity, culture and their own religious traditions alive. On the other hand, an increasing number of people have sought to join with local Irish churches and have a desire to integrate. That was our experience in Clontarf. In order to understand the culture more fully and learn the language more quickly I think they decided it was in their interest to join with the local congregation and become part of the worshipping community.

What steps have you taken to help the newcomers integrate into church life?
We had to find ways to integrate them in the church services by providing some input in a language they could understand, while not having the service go wildly over time for the local congregation. It started initially with hymns being announced in French and English and giving page numbers for scripture readings to help them follow as well as they could. If we had a visiting preacher I would sit among them and interpret. A missionary brought us hymnbooks in French, Lingala, and Swahili. Together they identified hymns they knew which were the same as the hymns that we knew. So they were able to sing in their own languages while we sang in English and it worked very well because we were singing the same tunes and basically the same words. Then they formed a choral group and contributed hugely to our worship. When you hear Africans sing, the rhythm and everything is wonderful. I remember them singing 'What a Friend We Have in Jesus,' in Lingala. When you have heard that you never want to hear it sung in English again. It's just so alive. Then we changed the format for lifting the offering. Instead of passing a plate around the pews, people started coming up to the front and putting their offering on the plate while we sang. In Africa they dance as well; we haven't managed to do that yet, but it became much more of a shared experience.

From time to time, one of them who was a pastor would preach and I would interpret into English. Sometimes we could have three languages going at the same time. It took a bit of getting used to; we had to learn to speak in short phrases and wait for the interpretation before continuing, which is not always easy.

For the Africans, when they came in the beginning I think there was a great sense of relief that they weren't turned away; that there was someone who could speak a language that they could understand. At least they could communicate, they could ask questions. And when people began to pray with them and for them, even if they didn't understand everything that was going on, there was still a sense in which they felt that they were at home spiritually.

As time went on and numbers increased, the problem of trying to deal with the fact that many of them didn't understand English well became greater. I offered them the opportunity of using the church for their own service. They went away and thought about it for two weeks, then came back and said, 'No, if it's ok with you we would like to integrate.' Other churches have had a different experience in that people haven't wanted to integrate and they have their own service separately. Or you have a situation like Waterford where there are two services. The Africans come to the English service at the beginning and then stay on for their own afterwards so there is a mixing of cultures there, which is working very well.

The biggest problem for many of the immigrants is that our services are so short! They only last an hour and they are used to the service lasting three hours, with lots of singing and dancing and moving around. We are more staid.

I think the other major factor that has perhaps put some congregations off is that the Africans particularly are not good timekeepers. They will happily walk in halfway through a service; it causes a disturbance and that can cause offence. Or children may walk around, make noise and disrupt what is going on. Then everyone is frustrated because they can't hear or can't concentrate. You can understand those frustrations but you have got to find a way round the problem, talk with both sides and try and come to some kind of meeting of minds.

Has it been difficult to manage change?
Integration requires willingness on both sides. Some people never quite come to terms with the changes. Others go out of their way to facilitate change and to make people feel welcome and between those two extremes there is a wide variety of experience and expression. There are sensitivities that have to be very carefully guarded in terms of the Irish people in the congregation. After all, the asylum seekers and refugees may be here for only a short period. I think when things settle down in their home countries and it is safe for them to go back they will, because there is nothing really to keep them here, whereas your Irish congregation has been here long before they arrived and will be here after they have gone.

I was a year and a half in Clontarf when the first immigrants arrived and I suppose I was still in the honeymoon period as far as the congregation was concerned, therefore they were maybe prepared to attempt things they mightn't have done two or three years further down the road. The initial welcome that the immigrants received made a huge difference to them because people went out of their way to suggest ways in which we might help them to integrate. For example, we would have a time of open prayer during the service each evening where they could pray in their own language and then everyone would say 'Amen' to the prayer, whatever language it happened to be in. You could have had five or six different languages going. The Irish people would pray as well and that knit them together. So it depends on the congregation as to what kind of adjustments are made or how church life is ordered to take into account the Irish experience as well as the new residents.

Many of these people have not come from a Methodist background in their home countries, but if they are worshipping regularly in a Methodist church here the Methodist Conference allows us to welcome them into membership. It happens in the Presbyterian Church as well. So this is their church, they have a sense of equality and a say in what is happening within the church. Not all of their needs or demands can be met, but at least if they are heard and some of the things are taken on board, where we can and as we can, that builds relationship and binds people together.

Has the church found ways to help asylum seekers on a practical level?
When they came first, one of the major things was the problem of dealing with our currency. They were not and still aren't allowed to open bank accounts unless they have residency. While they could manage the day-to-day running of things, the big bills for electric, gas or telephone came as a shock. So we got together as leaders of the church to see if there was some way around it. We decided to open a church account into which they would be encouraged to pay whatever little they could, week by week so that when the big bills came at least there would be something there which they could withdraw. Then some people in the locality who had heard them sing and heard some of their stories asked if there was some way in which they could contribute. So we opened a kind of credit union account with the advice of a retired bank manager. They were encouraged to pay in a certain amount. Strict rules were drawn up as to what they could withdraw, when they could withdraw it, for what purpose and terms for repayment. We called them together and put this scheme to them. We decided we were going to be very democratic and put three Irish people and three Africans in charge of organising the account. They accepted everything except that. They didn't want all the other Africans knowing their business so they asked the Irish to do it. We said, 'Well, now we aren't happy because that is colonialism – the white man telling the black man what he can or cannot do.' And they thought for about ten minutes and then they said, 'If that's your problem, we will make you honorary, white "Africans".' So basically, Irish people run the account but as white "Africans" rather than as Irish people. That was a major thing in helping them through difficulties.

Have you found yourself involved in helping them through the asylum application process?
The major focus in Portlaoise, so far, has been trying to help them to process their cases through the Department of Justice. I was involved with that in Dublin as well. It takes a major amount of time because you have to listen to their stories, advise them on filling in forms, on where to go for legal help and be with them through most of the process. When problems arise, they expect you to help sort them out. If they get turned down on the first interview I have to go through the appeal process with them.

I usually examine the letter from the Department and see whether, from what I know of them, there are things that are very obviously wrong in the judgement. I suggest points for appeal, point them in the right direction – particularly to the Refugee Legal Service – to get help in processing that appeal and make sure they get it done within the strict time limit.

And at every stage of the process reassuring them and praying with them. They appreciate just the fact that you take time to be with them, to pray with them and to try and give them advice. Even if their application isn't successful at the end of the day, they still appreciate the fact that you have been there and identified with them.

Part of it is cultural, because in their homeland if they were in trouble the minister would be their first port of call. He is regarded as the spiritual father in a sense. They would call you "Papa", which is strange, but it is very meaningful in the sense that you get really alongside them and they will trust you where maybe they will not trust someone else. We are not experts legally, but we do what we can, and I have been fortunate in that I have a number of friends in the legal profession who have been very helpful in advising what to do and what route to take.

In Clontarf we had a number of lay folk involved. In Portlaoise a support group for refugees and asylum seekers has been set up and a number of our folk from the church are involved. A lot of the immigrants are newly arrived into the area and into the church and it takes a while to get to know them, especially if they are not English speakers.

It's always a struggle to balance the time you can legitimately give to them because the demands are such that I could spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week looking after their legal problems and day to day cultural difficulties. But my Irish congregation have got to be looked after as well: the illnesses, bereavements, marriages, baptisms – all the things that belong to the normal church life, the preaching and Bible study – all those sort of things have got to be fitted in too.

What spiritual or pastoral needs have you found?
There is a much greater hunger for spiritual things among the Africans than there would be among many Irish people. The difficulty has been to do something meaningful for those who do not speak English. One of my sadnesses is that the newly appointed Rector of Athy, François Murenzi, who came from Rwanda, was killed in a car accident in November, just a short time after he was appointed. He and I were planning to try and produce some Bible studies in French for some of the immigrant people to use. It is something we have to look at again to see if there is a way of doing it – he would have had the expertise at his fingertips from his own experience in Rwanda as well.

The other thing that happens, partly in church life but also in the wider community context in the reception of immigrants into the area, is that often people from conflicting groups in the country of origin are housed in the same hostel. Someone from the other group may have massacred members of their family and yet they are expected to live with them and accept them as if nothing happened. That is very difficult.

The same thing can happen at interview. They are entitled to interpretation when they come for interview to the Immigration Department, in the Department of Justice, but if the interpreter is from an opposing ethnic group from within their country then you have no guarantee that the interpretation is going to be correct.

Do you address issues of reconciliation or peacebuilding in church?
Yes. I think that has got to be part of the ongoing process and African pastors who come over would do the same. I have had two or three African pastors preaching and part of that would normally be around forgiveness and reconciliation. The majority of asylum seekers and refugees that I have been involved with say that they have had to learn to forgive otherwise it would have destroyed them. They have gone through a process of evaluating what has happened to them and, I suppose, living in a foreign country in a very different culture, they have come to the conclusion that they have to learn to live together. If they cause trouble they can be deported, so it is in their interests to keep things calm and not to start conflict.

For Christians there must be an insistence on the need to forgive what has happened in the past and move on. Remarkably, a lot of them don't even hold a serious grudge against the rulers and others who have ill-treated them. They say, 'That was there, that is past. If the time comes when I can go back to my country and if I happen to meet some of those who have been responsible for the ill-treatment, I'm not thinking in terms of revenge.' They want to start a new life and want to do things differently.

In many ways they've taught us a lesson. This experience has taught us the importance of forgiveness and moving on for our own spiritual life. We have learnt how it is possible to express joy against the background of the most horrific trauma. One of the things that amazes me constantly is the exuberance of their worship, given what they have been through. There is a dropout among some people who have come here from other countries, in terms of church attendance. Some of them just say, 'God hasn't looked after me, so that is the end'. But a large number still want to be involved and sometimes their hesitation has been whether they would be accepted and whether things can be put in place to encourage them. Practical kindness is the one thing that breaks down barriers and encourages them to come.

What lessons have you and your Irish congregations been learning from this experience?
Some of the things I have already indicated – like forgiveness and the ability to be joyful in the midst of major trouble – but also when we open our hearts to people we often receive more back than we give. There has been a transformation in the joy of worship and in the whole worship experience. I think people would never want to go back to what it was before and they are almost jealous that these people belong to the congregation! Some churches have a notice board for the photographs and names of all the immigrants, which is a big help for people to identify them and get to know them, but it also makes them feel that they are part of the set-up locally. Whether they are immigrants, asylum seekers, refugees or people who are here as migrant workers, the photographs just all go up with their names and they are welcomed officially as well.

Also, the whole experience of praying together with people from a different background and praying in a different language – where you probably don't understand what they are saying. But there is a one-ness in spirit with those people that has been hugely impressive. I suppose in a sense it almost feels like a foretaste of heaven, there is a sense in which we are all together – we are all one in Christ. I think they appreciate that and we certainly have learnt to appreciate it.

Do many of the asylum seekers and immigrants experience racism?
The downside, in terms of the Christian church, is that some have come here and been disillusioned because their experience of Irish missionaries was very good, but then they have come to Ireland and have found racism in the streets. They have been verbally, and sometimes physically, abused. One African lady was sitting with her little child on her lap in the shopping centre in Portlaoise, waiting for her husband to come out of a shop. Some Irish person with a cigarette came along and tapped the ash onto the child's head, and when the mother protested said 'Well, it's just an ashtray'.

I think a lot of the increasing racism has been fuelled by government policies. The government has changed tack and is trying to prevent people getting into the country and into the asylum system. The fact that asylum seekers are not allowed to work means they are seen as spongers – taking social security money that should be going to Irish people – and the whole propaganda about so many being illegal and not having any right to seek asylum has stirred up a lot of racism and anti-immigrant feeling.

It is a reversal of the way Ireland was seen in the world community. Traditionally we have been known as a very generous, warm-hearted and welcoming people and this is just the opposite. It is also a denial of the experience of Irish people who had to go as refugees to other countries. Official Irish Government figures say that there are 74 million people of Irish origin in other countries of the world, most of whom went either as asylum seekers or economic migrants.

Edmund Burke said that 'all that it requires for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing', or words to that effect. The danger for us in this generation as Christians is that we sit back and do nothing and say, 'well, really it'.s not our concern'. Just because people don.t belong to our church or haven't come to our churches, it's very easy to say 'it's not my problem'.

What is the wider church doing to address these issues?
In Dublin the big impetus for continuing work in this area has been through the Churches' Asylum Network (CAN) which was set up under the Irish Commission for Justice and Peace by the Catholic Bishops. It has been very proactive, involving six different denominations. It currently meets every two months and brings together people from all over the country who are dealing with asylum issues. We have had people from the Department of Justice, Social Services, and other parts of the asylum process explain the process to us and answer questions; and we are constantly updated on what is happening across the country. A smaller group of about six or seven meet regularly with the Reception and Integration Agency (RIA) of the Department of Justice who are responsible for the welfare of all the asylum seekers coming into the country, from reception until their cases are decided. We have had one meeting on asylum issues with some of the top government civil servants and had a very sympathetic hearing. I'm not sure we have done much to effect change, but at least we have made those at the top aware of the concerns of people across the country.

I think the churches need to have a strong voice in this area and need to be seen to be speaking together. The Government does listen to what is being said. It is important at this stage in the process that the churches speak out against injustice, and putting clear proposals forward as to how things can be done better . recognising the difficulty in deciding who is genuine and who is not, and that there are those who want to traffic human beings. We are a small country with an economy which is now in decline again, but we have international responsibilities and a Christian responsibility to people who are often fleeing for their lives. We recognise the importance of getting it right and not just washing our hands like Pilate.

Numbers in the Protestant churches in the Republic have risen quite dramatically as a result of the increasing number of immigrants in the country. Are the churches experiencing a new vitality?
A lot of joy has come back to worship again in many churches, which were teetering along. My understanding is that before we came to Clontarf numbers at the evening service were very small. Now they would have an average of 40 to 50. Not all would be immigrants by any means, but I think the fact that immigrants came in brought other people along to see what was happening. The disaffection with the Catholic Church has meant that a number of folk from a Catholic background have been coming too and while many of them have kept their roots in the Catholic Church they have been sharing in Bible study and services in Dublin and elsewhere. I think it's a good thing and there seems to be an openness now, that wasn.t there before in many of our churches, to people coming in like that and to welcoming the people who come in. A lot of churches have grown significantly and the spiritual life has been enriched and enhanced by those who have come as well.

François Murenzi was the Church of Ireland Rector in Athy for less than six months and yet people who hadn't been in church for years were coming along. The Sunday School had grown and there was a sense of life and buzz about the place that there hadn't been for a long time. And I don.t think that will disappear again, just because he is no longer with us. There has been a major spiritual impact there and that has happened in a lot of other churches as well.

The other important aspect, I think, about our whole attitude to those who come in, is the fact that they are going to be here for a relatively short time, probably. Some may stay and put down roots but the majority will probably go back home as soon as it is possible. The attitudes we have towards them are going to have a major impact on what happens when they go back. Those who have been within the churches will be going back effectively as missionaries to their own people and taking the view of Christianity and what they have learnt here back with them. That is bound to have an impact on the churches and influence the views of governments and rising generations in those countries towards missionaries and people who have come from Western Europe.

In Portlaoise about 50 per cent of the congregation on a Sunday morning would be African, a mixture of Nigerians, Congolese and Angolans. The numbers of Africans and others coming in are increasing all the time. Sometimes churches hesitate about whether or not to get involved – but in a sense a mission field has come to our doorstep and we now have an opportunity to be with people from parts of the world many of us would never be able to visit ourselves and to make an impact for God in those countries through these people.

The churches in Ireland will change only in so far as they are prepared to change. In the Methodist Church, the Dublin and Midland and Southern districts, which cover most of the Republic, have set up an initiative to see how we can best respond to these challenges. We've had a number of meetings to look at the facts and to see how we can equip ourselves to meet the needs of people coming in. We have got to be careful that we don't try to Europeanise the Africans like some missionaries did, but, while maintaining their culture, make sure that our own culture isn't swamped by the immigrants coming in. There is a fine balance, but I think we can only be enriched by it.

'In a sense, a mission field has come to our doorstep . . .'

NOEL FALLOWS was interviewed by Anna Rankin in Dublin on 22 January 2004.